They insanely overrated wiccan. Unkindness has fewer feats and it took her a whole longer to destroy the multiverse. Depending on the system, they may be considered either uncreated and eternal or the product of some other entity. In the "Battle of the Atom" X-Men crossover event, Billy Kaplan is one of the future X-Men, alongside a Phoenix-powered Quentin Quire, Jubilee (who goes by the codename "Wolverine"), Kymera, Shogo Lee, and Sir Robert (Bobby Drake). Several systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Being: his act of creation occurs in an unconscious semblance of the divine model, and thus is fundamentally flawed, or else is formed with the malevolent intention of entrapping aspects of the divine in materiality. Character This article is about philosophical concept of a Universal Fashioner. Outside, Magneto arrives, saying that he wants Billy help to locate his daughter. For other uses, see. Loki tells them that they need his help in order to destroy the parasite, and they agree. Of course, their threats were played off and ignored. Wiccan. My guyThat scan literally from said comic book run America:Made in the USA (2021) provided nothing of the sort to prove that the utopian parallel was recton at least not yet. The dyad is energeia emanated by the one that is then the work, process or activity called nous, Demiurge, mind, consciousness that organizes the indeterminate vitality into the experience called the material world, universe, cosmos. The Young Avengers decide to give the newbies a chance, and announce that they will host try-outs, where each Lite member will be teamed up with one or more Young Avengers. Of the entire team of YA Lite, only Enchantress and Coat of Arms (who had been tested by her old acquaintance, Tommy, aka Speed) were asked to join the Young Avengers. He has received some form of training from Loki during his time in the Young Avengers. I get how powerful wiccan is i really do but LMAO WHAT THE HELL IS HOMEBOI DOING TO THE UNKINDNESS, @yungbaby: Shes the ultimate villain of the DC multiverse, it happened during the future state event. So am I supposed to repeat the same thing over and over again, too? And as I said before get over the visual depiction we've seen Dice(Skrull Kill Krew) interact with them and he is not even as powerful as standard Wiccan. The ending panel for issue 3 is, Chavez "sister" revealing more people like her and America created by replicating America's mom's experiments. Wiccan doesn't have sufficient control over his powers to fully utilize the Demiurge's powers. New Music Friday: The best releases out on March 3 : All Songs Considered The best albums out this week include Kali Uchis' Red Moon in Venus, a self-titled joint from the Jamaican American artist . (ch. "Billy Kaplan was a normal high school boy until he discovered his power of Electrokinesis and became one of the heroes he admired. When Norman Osborn invaded Asgard with his army of superpowered beings and H.A.M.M.E.R. Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling team up with Xavin and the Runaways to defeat the Super-Skrulls that are sent to assassinate Hulkling. Billy Kaplan, also known by his superhero alias Wiccan and formerly Asgardian, is a super-powered warlock and the reincarnated son of the Scarlet Witch. You then who are spiritual should worship neither the creation nor the Craftsman, but the Father of Truth. At first, it was presumed that Billy was just an electrokinetic mutant with strong sorcery abilities. It was here that Billy revealed to Teddy that Norse myths have always had a special meaning for him because his father used to read them to him at night. The Young Avengers were lured into a trap set by the Young Masters, who were waiting with Osborn's Dark Avengers to take down the YA. 9). Superhero Class. Sam Wilson and his newly Inverted Avengers shrunk all the gathered heroes down using Pym particles extracted from the Wasp (presumably against her will) and trapped them all in one of Hank Pym's microscopic ant farms, thereby taking care of the "liability". He is an archon with the face of a lion, half flame, and half darkness. In the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy, the demiurge (/dmi.rd/) is an artisan-like figure responsible for fashioning and maintaining the physical universe. He apparently could not save it from breaking apart without some ladies croaking so how powerful does that make him? In response, Billy, now enraged, summoned a devastating blast of lightning that quickly took down the entire Wrecking Crew. Wiccan In Comics Powers, Enemies, History | Marvel For Billy to activate his reality-bending magic, He must focus on a desire or idea and vocalize, repeating quickly what he wants in order for a spell to be cast. [7] This is the God above the Demiurge, and manifests through the actions of the Demiurge. The Young Avengers and the Super-Skrull fled the Kree. Billy took to her so well that, later, at a Young Avengers meeting, he vouched for Sylvie. She and Cassie also convinced Billy to change his alias from "Asgardian" to "Wiccan" in acknowledgment of his new powers (and due to "Asgardian" being exploitable by the media in relation to Billy's sexuality and relationship with Hulkling). Wiccan can augment his strength through magic. In Middle Platonist and Numenius's Neo-Pythagorean cosmogenies, the Demiurge is second God as the nous or thought of intelligibles and sensibles[4] (Middle Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism overlapped: both originating in the early 1st century BC and extending through to the end of the 2nd century AD or even into the 3rd century). T. Wiccan last edited by He has received two figures to date, one of which depicted his most well known costume, and the other of which depicted his original Asgardian outfit. Being raised in a normal home in New York with his loving mother, Rebecca Kaplan, father, Jeff Kaplan, and two brothers, Billy had the average problems for a gay teenager. Billy explained to the woman what had happened and was shocked to see the woman was none other than Scarlet Witch. As long as they are near their parents or the location of their parent's deaths, they will be in danger. Teleports an entire prisoner van to a secure SHIELD location. He should win here. Kat Farrell of the Daily Bugle was at the scene, dubbing them the "Young Avengers" and after reporting to J. Jonah Jameson of the Daily Bugle he decided to put Jessica Jones on the assignment of finding out who they were. Generally though, I'd agree with the take that trying to compare the power of two nebulously defined reality warpers is a bit silly. hansfenton123 Wiccan (Billy Kaplan) **** D3 Go! Forums His abilities were first triggered when the Scarlet Witch used her . https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6Y934v-iG3NRpVANkwhqbJlExL9r9BuVDNqdz2XRNSEnmIMffLzVNOolz-NaFFXB9FKrzqUThvKZK_DX_eR5-74KBCLwCD8WVZWNPL3NGgba1NKocwdrWzk-kHtsYnxisKM_Zkg06Q=s1600. There are instances, however, where he doesn't need to chant to cast a spell. The earliest Gnostic sects ascribe the work of creation to angels, some of them using the same passage in Genesis. The team is quickly defeated even after the team of Initiative recruits arrive. Especially considering said story isnt even completed and is still running so whos to say Catalina is lying? Here he uses an offensive spell but he doesn't repeat the spell. With the combined focus of Magneto and Speed, he was able to locate the Scarlet Witch, who was presumably dead. Wiccan and the rest of the Young Avengers (excluding Stature) decided not to register, Hawkeye and Patriot serving with the underground resistance team known as the Secret Avengers. Billy and the Young Avengers are the first team to respond to invading Skrulls in New York. With a thought, he puts a group of bad guys in a coma. After these events, Captain America ordered the Young Avengers to disband. This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for: Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other 3. Undoubtedly, the Wiccan demiurge is very strong (high magic, rewriting of reality on high level and etc.). As the Demiurge, Billy is destined to "rewrite the laws of magic" in the universe, meaning that he is a being of power on a massive scale. Last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49, introducing citations to additional sources, Learn how and when to remove this template message, Against the Gnostics; or, Against Those that Affirm the Creator of the Cosmos and the Cosmos Itself to be Evil, International Society for Neoplatonic Studies, Dark Mirrors of Heaven: Gnostic Cosmogony, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demiurge&oldid=1141744969, This page was last edited on 26 February 2023, at 15:49. By stating an intent and focusing on the outcome. It was other people that had a problem with him. Billy used his magical abilities to send Sentry away, taking Osborn's most valuable team member off the board. This sudden outburst of powers worries the Avengers, who think that it may lead to Wiccan having a mental breakdown similar to that of the Scarlet Witch. Unhappy about this, Billy uses a location spell to find the team, and the real Young Avengers confront the false ones. It is in the system of Valentinus that the name Dmiurgos is used, which occurs nowhere in Irenaeus except in connection with the Valentinian system; we may reasonably conclude that it was Valentinus who adopted from Platonism the use of this word. Respect Wiccan (Marvel, 616) : r/respectthreads - reddit To Plotinus, the second emanation represents an uncreated second cause (see Pythagoras' Dyad). A second? Plato, as the speaker Timaeus, refers to the Demiurge frequently in the Socratic dialogue Timaeus (28a ff. He IS omniversal. He is blind to all that is spiritual, but he is king over the other two provinces. Here he uses an offensive spell but he doesn't repeat the spell. Wiccan discovered that he and the newest recruit, a youth with super speed by the name of Tommy Shepard, were identical in appearance. The Super-Skrull noted that Wiccan seemed to have inherited the Scarlet Witch's magical and reality-warping abilities while Tommy has those of her twin brother, Quicksilver. Magic/Reality-Warping: Billy's main power is the superhuman ability to manipulate reality at will, enabling him to tap into the universe's store of magical energies, which he inherited from his spiritual mother the Scarlet Witch. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll As the full-powered Demiurge, he casually removes Mother from existence, who is an extremely powerful matter manipulator, and removes everyone from the pocket dimension into the main universe. William Kaplan | Comic Superpowers Wiki | Fandom While patterning himself after Thor in the guise of Asgardian, Billy limited himself entirely to flight and lightning based spells. Is Wiccan THE Demiurge? : Marvel - reddit In the future, Wiccan will become the Demiurge, a singular multidimensional Messiah, according to Loki. In this act of separate creation, she gave birth to the monstrous Demiurge and, being ashamed of her deed, wrapped him in a cloud and created a throne for him within it. Wiccan and the others were eventually rescued by their teammates and continued avoiding registration. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. Wiccan's force fields have become progressively stronger through his time in comics. His brother Tommy, who was a trained sorcerer, assisted the Avengers and the two fought each other until their father the Vision intercepted and destroyed Ultron, ending the battle. [28], Yaldabaoth is frequently called "the Lion-faced", leontoeides, and is said to have the body of a serpent. All you do is scream the same thing over and over contradicting yourself. Whereas Plato's Demiurge is good wishing good on his creation, Gnosticism contends that the Demiurge is not only the originator of evil but is evil as well. He should curb here. Hence Demiurge never played any part in it's creation. He has to say the action he wants to happen in order for the spell to be cast. There the boys encountered Master Pandemonium who further strengthened their belief that they are the reincarnated souls of the Scarlet Witch's twin sons. The box set would prove to be one of the last Marvel Legends products produced by ToyBiz before the Marvel license transferred to Hasbro. After looking into it, Sam Wilson found that someone with Avengers membership and passcodes had helped the Skull escape. . A bit desperate too. Acts as a safeguard while the Scarlet Witch and Doom try to access the Earth's Life Force, which is what gave HoM Wanda her powers. Billy Kaplan never had a problem being different than other people. Billy Kaplan (@Wiccan_Demiurge) | Twitter Unable to control them, he electrocuted Kessler, nearly killing him. Iron Lad explained he needed help protecting himself from his future self, called Kang. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/raven-the-unkindness-respect-thread-2156619/, There's more too by the way I have not 100% updates that thread, Demiurge Wiccan is above time and reality, and the multiverse. This type of spellcasting has its flaws obviously. Christ, in reality, is the Son of the Good God. Probably Raven if she is anything like what people pretend Demiurge Wiccan is. The confrontation led to a battle between Kang and the Young Avengers. Wiccan becomes the target of all enemy attacks. (Kick Duck Dancing) 16:52 GG - Petrivka 19:49 Daniel Christian ft. Kolly Dee - Slava Ukraine 23:19 Andrew StetS feat. on 01/09/22 The Super-Skrull revealed to Teddy that he was "Dorrek VIII" the rightful heir to the Skrull Empire. 'wisdom'), the Demiurge's mother and partial aspect of the divine Pleroma or "Fullness," desired to create something apart from the divine totality, without the receipt of divine assent. Nebro creates six angels in addition to the angel Saklas to be his assistants. 1. It was in this moment that Osborn called in the big gun. When Loki teleports away, seemingly abandoning the team, Wiccan sees no choice but to kill himself in order to end his spell, but is saved by Loki's return. The mountain represents the Devil, or his world, since the Devil was one part of the whole of matter, but the world is the total mountain of evil, a deserted dwelling place of beasts, to which all who lived before the law and all Gentiles render worship. Billy joins him at his side, and they play a part in stopping a Cotati invasion of Earth. As a Kree, Hulkling was to be enlisted in the Kree army, by force if necessary. It's unclear whether or not he used magic to defend at all. The Demiurge will rewrite the rules of magic and all the implications of that decision will echo forward and backward across all realities. During the events of Dark Reign, Billy and the other Young Avengers encounter another group of superpowered teenagers running around using the name "Young Avengers". You're like one of those Supes Prime One Million fanboys. The Demiurge of Neoplatonism is the Nous (mind of God), and is one of the three ordering principles: Before Numenius of Apamea and Plotinus' Enneads, no Platonic works ontologically clarified the Demiurge from the allegory in Plato's Timaeus. Recognizing the Runaways under attack by registration agents on a monitoring screen, the Young Avengers set out to assist them and convince them to join the anti-registration side. Gnosticism attributed falsehood or evil to the concept of the Demiurge or creator, though in some Gnostic traditions the creator is from a fallen, ignorant, or lesserrather than evilperspective, such as that of Valentinius. None of which are multivetsal. So what he can one day maybe make a universe in how much time and at what cost? Realizing that the Scarlet Witch must be a prisoner of Doctor Doom, Billy sneaks into Latveria on his own to find her. Wiccan's magic is similar to his mother's, the Scarlet Witch. All those statements are never verified when they were not outright contradicted or retconned. In refuting the beliefs of the gnostics, Irenaeus stated that "Plato is proved to be more religious than these men, for he allowed that the same God was both just and good, having power over all things, and himself executing judgment. While still trying to decide how to continue their activities while staying under the radar of the New Avengers, Hulkling was kidnapped by the Super-Skrull. To this Messiah, however, was actually united with Jesus the Saviour, Who redeemed men. Wiccan and Hulkling from this reality, also known as Earth A, came to Earth-616 as tourists, and for some reason they registered in the Initiative. You just said yourself the universe he destroyed was fixed by time travel, so not beyond time or reality or time travel would not affect it. Billy and his boyfriend Teddy were among those gathered at the meeting. (@ultraphoenix), https://twitter.com/spacekicker/status/1364588644032421889. In others, including the teaching of Valentinus, the demiurge is simply ignorant or misguided. @demiurgekaplan: multiversal demi urge has been debunked, https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/demiurge-wiccan-vs-hom-wanda-vs-white-phoenix-jean-2159484/. Not to mention the fact that he as the demiurge was drawn by America in said Made in a USA comic run before Catalina showed up. At the consummation of all things, all light will return to the Pleroma. This vilification of the creator was held to be inimical to Christianity by the early fathers of the church. Eaglemoss released a painted figurine of Wiccan. Plotinus, "Against the Gnostics". For relatively simple spells, such as his shields, lightning, and conjuring, he doesn't chant the spell (on panel at least). The Demiurge, having received a portion of power from his mother, sets about a work of creation in unconscious imitation of the superior Pleromatic realm: He frames the seven heavens, as well as all material and animal things, according to forms furnished by his mother; working, however, blindly and ignorant even of the existence of the mother who is the source of all his energy. He is currently engaged to Teddy Altman, aka Hulkling. His inclusion on the team allowed the future X-Men to gain mastery over both science and magic. 1). Stature later defected to the pro-registration side, stating that she did not want to go to prison like Wiccan had. During her marriage to the Vision, the Scarlet Witch used her reality-altering powers to create twin boys Willaim and . Theyre was never a recton that changed how the utopian parallel was created cause according to these recent America comics which still say and show that the demiurge I.e William Kaplan (Wiccan). In the theoretic of Plotinus, nous produces nature through intellectual mediation, thus the intellectualizing gods are followed by a triad of psychic gods. They started off by helping out the community, such as saving people from a burning building. Wiccan and Hulkling are thrown into a prison outside their dimension, but are rescued by Loki. @killianduclark: Thats not even remotely debunking anything. His appearance is patterned on that of two prominent Marvel superheroes, Thor and Scarlet Witch, both of whom are members of the Avengers. Plotinus, along with his teacher Ammonius Saccas, was the founder of Neoplatonism. These are either hyliko or pneumatiko. False and melodramatic Gnostic teaching about the cosmic spheres and their influence (ch. They go to the Uncanny Avengers for help, but they too fall under the influence of the parasite. Iron Lad had found Teddy Altman (Hulkling), Elijah Bradley (Patriot) and now Billy Kaplan (as "Asgardian") who all three agreed to help him, despite their lack of experience. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come. So don't act like I'm the one lacking information here. [28], The first, or material men, will return to the grossness of matter and finally be consumed by fire; the second, or animal men, together with the Demiurge, will enter a middle state, neither Pleroma nor hyle; the purely spiritual men will be completely freed from the influence of the Demiurge and together with the Saviour and Achamoth, his spouse, will enter the Pleroma divested of body (hyle) and soul (psych). William was believed to be Malachi, who attacked the Avengers during the Crossing story arc. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Iron Lad had used a system he found in the remains of the Vision which helped locate alternative members for the Avengers for the next generation. Demiurge. During a trap laid by Iron Man and the pro-registration heroes, in which they planned to immediately take out the resistance's teleporters - Cloak & Wiccan - Wiccan was captured and sent to the N-Zone prison for his involvement with the underground Avengers. There is nothing that suggests that he is universal. Sylvie was later kicked out. The user is able to perform/cast a rare variety of magic spells and feats that manipulates reality itself to various degrees. Dude The Unkindness negs I can break this down if you want, and I talked too both authors . [49] In the ninth tractate of the second of his Enneads, Plotinus criticizes his opponents for their appropriation of ideas from Plato: From Plato come their punishments, their rivers of the underworld and the changing from body to body; as for the plurality they assert in the Intellectual Realmthe Authentic Existent, the Intellectual-Principle, the Second Creator and the Soulall this is taken over from the Timaeus. Special circumstance here as Hulkling was in mortal danger so he was angry. His parents openly accepted his sexuality and welcomed Teddy as a member of their family. Evangeliou, "Plotinus's Anti-Gnostic Polemic and Porphyry's Against the Christians", in Wallis & Bregman, From "Introduction to Against the Gnostics", Plotinus', Armstrong, pp. The Valentinian theory elaborates that from Achamoth (he kt sopha or lower wisdom) three kinds of substance take their origin, the spiritual (pneumatiko), the animal (psychiko) and the material (hyliko). I made The respect threads , and I'm telling you the unkindness is a problem. While being attacked, Billy's powers manifested for the first time. Not to mention she proves that she can inhibit America's powers by dosing her with a counter serum. Ridiculous arrogance of the Gnostics who refuse to acknowledge the hierarchy of created gods and spirits and say that they alone are sons of God and superior to the heavens (ch. When Billy leaves the team, Sunspot gifts him a NYC penthouse for he and Hulking to retire to. After defeating Mr. Hyde, Patriot admitted that he had not inherited his grandfather's Super Soldier abilities and promptly quit the Young Avengers. The Gnostics adopted the term demiurge. However, strange things begin to occur with the children, who rapidly age from infancy to school age through unknown means. In one of the many dark possible futures shown to Immortus by The Time Keepers; William and Thomas had become tyrannical God-like superhumans who were seen launching a devastating assault on Eternity in an attempt to overthrow him. Demiurge | Marvel Database | Fandom The former was dkaios, severely just, the latter agaths, or loving-kind; the former was the "god of this world",[41] the God of the Old Testament, the latter the true God of the New Testament. In the report of the system of Basilides,[23] we are told that our world was made by the angels who occupy the lowest heaven; but special mention is made of their chief, who is said to have been the God of the Jews, to have led that people out of the land of Egypt, and to have given them their law. A massive spell cast by Billy brought in evil clones of the Young Avengers that distracted Mother and allowed their remaining teammates and the rest of the team to escape again, but Mother added the clones to her army.Wiccan quit the Young Avengers after that, convinced, through a manipulative suggestion of Loki's, that Wiccan and Hulkling were It was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan", but gradually came to mean "producer", and eventually "creator". . The true believer in Christ entered into God's kingdom, the unbeliever remained forever the slave of the Demiurge.[28]. Their search took them to various significant locations to the Scarlet Witch, finally ending at the former home that she shared with the Vision. The Young Avengers are seen fighting a terrorist group called the Sons if the Serpent. Robert Reynolds, aka Sentry, descended into the room, prepared to tear the YA apart. Scarlet Witch's Son Is More Powerful Than Dormammu, Marvel - ScreenRant Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily the same as the creator figure in the monotheistic sense, because the demiurge itself and the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are both considered consequences of something else. Tanks eye beams from Sentry, and comes out unscathed. Understanding that there was no choice, Iron lad returned to the future, bidding his teammates farewell. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. In that series, Wanda and Vision conceive twin sons. These six, in turn, create another twelve angels "with each one receiving a portion in the heavens". The senseless jargon of the Gnostics, their plagiarism from and perversion of Plato, and their insolent arrogance (ch. Plato's work Timaeus is a philosophical reconciliation of Hesiod's cosmology in his Theogony, syncretically reconciling Hesiod to Homer.[1][2][3]. The Latin translation, confirmed by Hippolytus of Rome,[24] makes Irenaeus state that according to Cerinthus (who shows Ebionite influence), creation was made by a power quite separate from the Supreme God and ignorant of him. The performance might range from a nudge to a certain existential state or outcome, to modified every reality in existence. In a fight with Doctor Doom, both Cassie and Vision are killed. However, the act only attracted unwanted press. In the Apocryphon of John, Yaldabaoth is also known as both Sakla and Samael. The two sides clashed until the battle was ended by Captain America's realization that their position was being fought in a manner that only endangered more citizens. A confrontation with the villain Mr. Hyde led to Wiccan's discovery that Patriot had been abusing Mutant Growth Hormone. @stahlflamme: is this demiurge( wiccan) isn't the same old demiurge? Under the name of Nebro (rebel), Yaldabaoth is called an angel in the apocryphal Gospel of Judas. Demiurge Wiccan vs Unkindness Raven - Battles - Comic Vine Humiliated and defeated, Osborn ordered the remaining members of his team to stand down, simply stating to the YA that, "This never happened." Billy experiments with some names, adopting the name Demiurge, but later reverts back to Wiccan. Wiccan (real name William "Billy" Kaplan) is a comic book character, a member of the Young Avengers, a team of teenage superheroes in the Marvel Universe. The only other thing he ever did was wipe out a dimensional parasite, that is at best as powerful as any other entity ruling their own dimension like Mephisto or the like, but likely considerable weaker. Timaeus describes the Demiurge as unreservedly benevolent, and so it desires a world as good as possible. Coat of Arms refused to leave her team, but Enchantress graciously accepted. 1012). Soon after, Billy married his longtime boyfriend, Hulking, however, their new life is briefly interrupted when Hulking takes his rightful place as the king of a Kree and Skrull alliance. 2023 GAMESPOT, A FANDOM COMPANY. Turner, "Gnosticism and Platonism", in Wallis & Bregman. Unwillingly, Wiccan's spell to bring back Hulkling's mother has brought back the parents of multiple heroes, including Ms. America's. Also America: Made in the USA(2021). With that Osborn took his leave, and left the team alone. View full history. All realities mean omniverse. It is eventually revealed by Agatha Harkness that Billy and Tommy were subconsciously created by Wanda through the use of Chaos Magic, and cannot exist outside of Westview. Mother is defeated, and all theteen heroes gather at MJ's Club to celebrate the new year. Demiurge (William "Billy" Kaplan, Wiccan) - Superhero Database
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