Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? What size Lionel transformer do I need? Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. no it isn't. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. And that means theyre affordable. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. These can all have uses for your layout. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. One rail is positive, the other negative. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. It can be a great secondary power supply for lighted buildings, signals, and other accessories. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. They are fun to have. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Transformer sizing for new systems For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Transformer Size Requirement? - Classic Toy Trains Magazine Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. Come join the discussion about brands, various scales, repairs, storage, displays, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Calculating transformer size for layout size - Classic Toy - Trains The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. Effort. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. It does not work with O27. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Model train transformer- 6 steps to understanding how they work Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. 7 Best Transformer For Model Railway - LEDS.CC While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. :-). How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Serious or fatal injuries may result. They are fun to have. What lionel transformer do i need - Go Quick Qna The smaller the number, the larger the wire. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. Mark. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Just not quite as much. LGB FAQs : Power The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Some people even find it fun. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. CW80 Transformer. Price Received. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. We're sorry. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Both are lighted. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. Transformer for Lionel that works in AUSTRALIA Transformer Size Calculator - Electram I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. Price Received. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. [:)]. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. Mike to the forum. View More! By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on JavaScript is disabled. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. OTTS Founder
Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. Transformer Calculator KVA Calculator Full Load Amps Calculator Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts - The Spruce Crafts Amazon.com: Lionel O Gauge Transformer Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. what size lionel transformer do i need. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. How to correctly size a transformer | Consulting - Specifying Engineer Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. They run on three rail track. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. This will solve the slowdown problem. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Why Sign In? I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Lionel Vintage Model Railroad & Train Transformers - eBay properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Can't plug into outlet? Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). M3103. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. Never had a problem. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. what size lionel transformer do i need - senatlaevproducts.com Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. A. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout.